Friday, October 20, 2006

Boo!

So today we decorated for Halloween. I'd put it off until we could find fake spiders big enough to prey on Barbie dolls and - Pagan Gods Be Praised - we found some at the den of iniquity which is A.C. Moores craft store. May Jesus have mercy on their souls for selling this kind of garbage.

I know some People of Faith wrestle with observing Halloween, but I've never been one of them. Good Christians fret that there's too much pagan symbolism, and claim paganism is Evil because it is predates Christianity. But that begs the question: "What part of "pre" don't they understand?" The pagans didn't know anything about Christianity or Christ because it hadn't been introduced to them. I'm not sure how now knowing about Christianity makes someone evil. So far no one has yet to explain it to me in a way that makes any sense.

Of course, when the pagans were converted, it wasn't always willingly. So when they were forced to build churches they snuck carvings of their own gods into the architechture. And the church threw them a bone with Mary, who was the closest thing to a goddess they could allow. To bring the pagans along, the Christians co-opted the pagan holy days and turned them into Christian ones. Yule became Christmas, Eostre became Easter and so on. If you think Halloween is ful of pagan symbolism, try investigating the origins of your Christmas tree sometime.

And if you really, really want to blow your own mind, look into old pagan myths of the sacrificial king. It may remind you of Someone You Know.

So can you still be a good Christian if you celebrate Halloween? Sure, especially if you already celebrate Easter and Christmas. Besides, I'm pretty sure God approves. Why else would He have allowed candy corn?

71 comments:

5th Estate said...

Hello...
I arrived here via your comment at DocBoogaloo who I visit all too infrequently (though he's on my blogroll) but greatly admire.

And speaking of admiration this here is what I would call a pithy and charming post--it tickles the funny bone and also the old grey matter.

Sorry, I'm not usually this pompous and obsequious, but really, that's some darned good writing.
A toast to dead ancestors!

Erik said...

Candy Corn is a pox on the land! It has no purpose in this world or the next. Plus it tastes really yucky!

The issue isnt that they are evil, it is that all men are born into sin. Its the whole imperfection must be made perfect to be in the presence of a perfect G-d thing.

And for the record I dont celebrate Christmas or Easter. I take a lot of s&^* for it too. Even and perhaps especially from non or marginal Christians.

Lets also remember that Mary is a Catholic thing. Not a Christian thing. There is zero justification for worshipping her or giving her such a prominent place.

Erik said...

If I DID celebrate halloween I would probably go so gruesome in my decorations that people would complain. There would be dead bodies, perhaps with the proper rotting stench. Blood dripping from various places, possibly a portion of a body with the viscera hanging out (stench is important here too)

I do like the whole barbie doll thing. That is pretty cool in light of your spider fetish.

Bobbb - Citizen of Earth said...

LOL
as Homer Simpson once said about Halloween:
"God bless those Pagans"

I'm down with the pagans - and all things spiritual.

Morgan said...

Why thank you, 5th estate. I'm humbled by such kind comments. And here, here to our dead bonfire-burning, maypole-dancing forefathers. And foremothers.

Morgan said...

Erik,
You get my nod as a Consistent Christian. My thinking is if you're going to practice and identify with Christianity then *practice* it, not some watered down variation that lets folk have their cake and eat it, too.
My beef, obviously, isn't with you but with all those "Christian" nimrods who attack Harry Potter and Halloween but put up Christmas trees or take their kids to the church Easter egg hunt.
As for Catholics not being Christian...well, I'll let you say that. I know quite a few who would say they are Christian, but you can slug that point out with them seeing how I have no desire to wade into such waters.
It's a shame, though, that you don't celebrate Halloween. The gory decorations would be a hit. I guess you *could* use real pig intestines for realism, and they would certainly give your scene that "real corpse" ambience. But it would scare the trick-or-treaters away. And you'd be stuck with a lot of candy corn. ;-)

Morgan said...

"I'm down with the pagans - and all things spiritual."

Here, here to you Bob as well!

Anonymous said...

Interesting post, Morgan, but I think it bears noting that people who follow a pre-Christian faith once they know about Christ are damned.

Bobbb - Citizen of Earth said...

Good Morning Morgan

Since childhood I have been trying to connect science with spirituality
Call me selfish, but I want both.
I honestly cannot live is a state of denial on either issue.
The universe, Mother Earth and my soul will not let me.

Why would God reject those who lived before, or could not be reached by a message sent to us through Jesus?

That is a huge failure for Christians to take responsibility for, and I simply cannot believe that.

We are ALL connected – not through faith, ritual, ceremony or religion, for the connection existed before any of those.

The connection has always been, will always be.
I am starting to believe, and in a most powerful and extraordinary way, that the Big Bang was not an event, it is a continuum.

It is a spark in reality that created the construct of what we experience as space & time.
So it seems I am a creationist after all.

Please do NOT modify any textbooks or curriculums on my behalf.

Andrea said...

Cool idea with the spiders and Barbies. I'd love to be decorating right now...if I didn't currently live in a hotel room :( So, I'm jealous.

My ancestors were Aztecs, or Mayans, or some such. Interesting people but definitely not Girl Scouts. But then whose ancestors were?

And guys...candy corn is an Absolute Good :D

Morgan said...

Anonymous,

Note what you want, but it's been my observation that the Christians are so busy damning each other that it may be awhile before your fellow believers get around to joining you in damning the pagans. Erik believes Catholics aren't Christian and I assume he thinks this means Catholics are on the wrong path, eternally speaking. Most fundamentalists Southern Baptists believe that about every other denomination. Christians argue about the trinity, what constitutes repentatance, etc. and can go on arguing forever without end, amen.

So believe pagans are damned if you like. I have been known to question ethics, especially the ethics and actions of "spiritual" and "Christian" people I see behaving in ways contrary to what they preach. But I stop short of diagnosing the state of their soul. I'll leave that to God.

Morgan said...

Andrea,
We all have pagan ancestors when you think about it. Christianity hasn't been around for the entire timeline; it's relatively new in the scope of things. Of course, a lot of Christians only care to trace their ancestry back to their early Christian roots, so as not to be embarrassed by their heathen relations. My ancestry goes back to the Celts, which probably won't surprise anyone.

Bobb, I agree with you that there shouldn't be such a disconnect between science and spirituality. What a shame it is that both sides invest so much time in trying to discredit one another when both are valid.

Andrea said...

I've always admired Celtic things. They came up with some pretty cool stuff.

And now I'm off to get some of those little pumpkin-shaped candy corns:D

Anonymous said...

There you go twisting things again Morgan. Not that it surprises me given that you're a heathen little bitch. I don't know why I even read your blog you smartass cunt. I thought I could witness to you, maybe, but now I see that you're a lost cause.

thimscool said...

Maybe you're just to good a Christian, anon. Certainly sounds that way.

Morgan said...

Thimscool, I think the problem may be that we just haven't read the same Bible as Anonymous. I'm sure in Anon's version of the Bible, Jesus called people "cunts" and "bitches" all the time. Why else would Anon be using such language unless, like any good Christian, he's just emulating Jesus?

Erik said...

I am descended from the Gunn clan. We were umm, restless. We were also known to never back down from a good fight or feud. A lost of us died.

Anon is obviously a troll and not worth paying attention to.

All candy corn is of the devil! What is wrong with you people. You like spiders AND candy corn. Next thing I know you are going to go on about how much you like seafood!

Catholicism is not Christianity. It is a blending of Christianity and paganism, Holy and profane. They pray to a goddess and depend upon their priests for salvation. This is not to say that there are no people who a Christian that happen to go to a Catholic church. I am speaking about the religion and teachings of the Pope and the RCC

Bobbb - Citizen of Earth said...

Why Anonymous!
What an un-kind and un-christian thing to say!

"I don't know why I even read your blog you smartass cunt."

Where I come from them is fighting words! wanna take it outside?

Why do you read it? - and why do you have to post as anonymous?

Why not just put a sheet over your head and burn a cross on her lawn?

You are certainly cowardly enough

Begone I say lest I put a pox on thee

Suspect said...

>I know some People of Faith wrestle with observing Halloween

Stupid people, stupid worries. Really, what a dumb thing to waste your time on. It's just a day to have fun and eat candy, right?

>I'm not sure how now knowing about Christianity makes someone evil.

Religion is fullof illogical, idiotic things that only make sense in the accompaniment of crazed priets, cocaine and late hours.

>Someone You Know
VOLDEMORT???????

Morgan said...

>Someone You Know
VOLDEMORT???????

ROFL. Suspect, you kill me. Not Voldemort. Jesus. Christianity is a retooling of pagan belief system. The death of a sacrificial king - a king who goes willingly to his death. Attis, Adonis, Osiris, Jesus - read the myths and you'll easily find the parallels.

That's why Erik's insistence that only Catholism blends Christianity and paganism is inaccurate. The story of Christ itself is drawn from pagan myths that preceded it. If those pagan tales are profane, then so is the Bible.

Does this mean that I don't believe in Jesus? No. I do. And I love him. But I concentrate on Jesus' teachings as the Prince of Peace who preached charity and love to the masses. He was killed for those beliefs, and His death was weaved into the most powerful sacrificial king myth ever told.

My intent here, by the way, is not to offend Erik, whom I like, or to diminish his belief system. I'm just pointing out that there's more than one way of looking at Jesus, and my way involves looking at what belief systems existed before Christianity and questioning people who consider those religions evil without providing any explanation as to why the story of Jesus so closely parallels the pagan myths that were told long before it came along.

Morgan said...

Bobb, my knight in shining armor. Sheath your sword, my dear. Erik is right. It seems that Anon has gone back under his bridge. And good riddance, too. His manner of "witnessing" would have sunk the church before it go started.

Bobbb - Citizen of Earth said...

Bobb, my knight in shining armor

What a pleasant thought!
I will cherish that
Indeed

Thanks for that

This one is just for you then:

I have steered uncertain waters
Wandered the void alone
From reality
To spirituality
Before returning home

Shattered glass
Held in my hand
Beliefs bleeding
Slow thought reaching
Teaching
Only to understand

Through Ignorance
Love, unity
I contemplate
Connectivity

Such as it is
I am
Stepping lightly
Upon the stars
Infinity is within me

Perhaps anonymous would like to witness that!

Erik said...

The story of Christ itself is drawn from pagan myths that preceded it. If those pagan tales are profane, then so is the Bible.

Morgan

The Christian faith isnt 2000 years old and therefore able to borrow from pagan beliefs. The Christian faith began at the begining of time (a few days after actually.) It starts with Adam and continues to this day. It has been called various things throughout time but it is the same faith.

The Christian G-d spoke directly with Adam, spoke with Moses as a friend, wrestled with Jacob, gave us the Abrahamic covenant but told us that it wasnt perfect because it relied upon humans and that a new covenant would be forthcoming. That new covenant was made when the Christ sacrificed Himself for our sin. We were given hints of this all along, even from the very begining.

Morgan said...

"It starts with Adam and continues to this day. It has been called various things throughout time but it is the same faith."

And yet it is not uniform, Erik. The story of Adam is a religion-specific tale, but other traditions have their own stories of how the first people came to be, and what kind of being created them. Those stories are, arguably, as old as the Bible.

Yes, a savior was foretold, but the Jews don't believe he's come yet. The Old Testament story doesn't just belong the the Christians. It belongs to the Jews, too.

Christianity and the story of Christ is new compared to the old Testament. And the story of Christ itself carries on the tried-and-true theme of the sacrificial king which is hardly an original idea. Remember, too, that many pagan cultures didn't believe in the devil. That's one way Christians deviated from those they converted, and it's interesting to note that the Christian devil looks a lot like the horned god the pagans revered.

If one is objective, it is hard not to believe that possibly - just possibly - religion has and remains a way to gain power and sway over people. He who defines God rules, no? And what easier way to hijack existing religious beliefs and remake them.

These musings, I think are essential for thinking people of faith. Some people may believe it is wrong to question. I do not. The story of Christ is not original by any means. The fact that Christians may not like to hear this doesn't make it any less true.

That Cleaning Lady said...

whewwww, sure set off a lot of yammer here my friend. For the record, I don't "celebrate" any holiday. I tell people it's not a religious thing, I'm simply too lazy... The truth is, I find all the commercialism distasteful. As for Halloween, I used to do those costumes and bar parties, suck down those Jello Shooters. Lately since I'm a sober person there's not much reason to dress up and go out among the drunken sots. I'll stay home and watch a good old horror movie (Like George Hamilton's version of Dracula) and leave the tricksters to go to someone elses house, there's no candy here.

Erik said...

The Old Testament story doesn't just belong the the Christians. It belongs to the Jews, too.

Some would make that distinction, but to my mind (and my faith) it is the exact same faith. Jews are still waiting for/looking forward to the Savior. Christians know who He is and that He has already appeared on earth. Unlike some, I dont blame Jews for not seeing Christ as their Savior as it was Christ Himself who blinded them to who He is, until the fullness of the Gentiles are brought in.

and it's interesting to note that the Christian devil looks a lot like the horned god the pagans revered.

That is a popular conception of Satan but it has zero basis in the Scriptures. Satan is the most beautiful of angels who often appears as an angel of light. No horned devil, no tail, no red skin. It simply isnt Biblical.

religion has and remains a way to gain power and sway over people. He who defines God rules, no?

For this reason the printing press was invented. To be able to print Bibles and distribute them to the masses that we would know the Scriptures and end the control of the Church over what we believed. With the press we were all able to read it for ourselves and we could choose to live our lives in accordance with what it says, not what we are told it says.

Bobbb - Citizen of Earth said...

For this reason the printing press was invented.

To distribute Christianity?
Or to make money...

When the printing press was invented there was only one book ready for mass distribution. Thus it was a marketing decision.

All the rest aside - you are all straying way to far from the post into a theological discussion worthy of it's own blog.

I celebrate Halloween
Why?
Because it's fun.
Lighten up folks

I have a co-worker that refuses to celebrate the “evil pagan” Halloween
It would be Un-Christian to do so.

Yet he wrapped a scarf around his head and wore an eye patch on international talk like a pirate day. (A made up office holiday I just loath)

So it’s sacrilegious to celebrate a holiday reaching back to the pagans of yore, but it’s ok and fun to celebrate, yea even emulate, a group of people who basically raped pillaged and committed murder for a living…

Now how am I supposed to take his beliefs seriously?

Lighten up…

BOO!

Happy Halloween

This year I might just dress as a pirate

C’mere ye buxom lassie! And shiver me timber….

Suspect said...

Erik:

Just for the record, answer the following questions.
1. What's your IQ?
2. Did you pass high school?
3. Who the fuck explained to you how to use the computer?
4. Why don't people like you curl up and die?

sammyray said...

I think for Halloween you should just throw Octavia at the kiddies.

That'll learn 'em.

thimscool said...

Suspect, I expect Erik will offer his own defence, but I would add before it's due: You're a punk. Nothing Erik said was adhominum, but you brought the (an)noise.

Morgan, I would comment that the adversary knew the story from way back and may have seeded many alternate testimonies similar but counterfit, to distract and detract.

Nevertheless, there is also the possibility that a global ancient civilization seeded all these myths, as discussed in an Atlantean site I linked to many moons back. It started near where Suspect lives, which would explain why English and all the Euro languages are an Indoeuropean tounge, with a root close to Sanskrit. It also accounts for some of the similarities in the structure and naming of the gods in the myths to which you refer.

It's all about the ring of fire. Indonesia baby. The South China Sea. 60 meters deep, on avearge, which was all above sea level 12,000 years ago when Ice coverd the Northern continents.

Parenthetically, the "ring of fire" more or less continues to describe my work life these days. Thank goodness I get paid by the hour.

Erik said...

Erik:

Just for the record, answer the following questions.
1. What's your IQ?
2. Did you pass high school?
3. Who the fuck explained to you how to use the computer?
4. Why don't people like you curl up and die?


1. 3 standard deviations above average
2. I went to college
3. Taught myself. I can build PCs from scratch. Able to install, configure & troubleshoot DOS, Win 3.X, Win9x, Win2K, WinXP and Linux. Worked as a tech for 3 years.
4. One day we all curl up and die.

Would you care to answer those same questions, "for the record"?

Erik said...

Sammyray

That'd send me running!

Suspect said...

1. 3 standard deviations above average
2. I went to college
3. Taught myself. I can build PCs from scratch. Able to install, configure & troubleshoot DOS, Win 3.X, Win9x, Win2K, WinXP and Linux. Worked as a tech for 3 years.
4. One day we all curl up and die.

Would you care to answer those same questions, "for the record"?


1. 156 on the S-B scale, so that's 3.5 SDs above average. That's before I adjust for age (I'm 15).
2. I'm in high school. Top of my class.
3. Any idiot can build PCs from scratch. Every second person around here can. You worked as a tech? I wrote the second fastest prime generator in the world. That's just an example, though.
4. 50 odd years, I'd say, seeing I'm overweight and my family has a history of heart disease.

Well. It hurts me to see someone with pretty high intelligence saying stuff like:

The Christian faith isnt 2000 years old and therefore able to borrow from pagan beliefs. The Christian faith began at the begining of time (a few days after actually.) It starts with Adam and continues to this day. It has been called various things throughout time but it is the same faith.

Because that sounds supiciously like you don't believe in evolution -- which sounds supiciously like a bible belt low-IQ farmer. Hence my questions.

Erik said...

Wow, and at 15 you already have all the answers! It amazes me that some company hasnt snatched you up and made you an exec.

At one time I thought I wanted to code, but after a couple of semesters I realized that I didnt want to spend my life behind a desk. I did manage to write a fantastic virus while I was learning. Nothing malicious but as annoying as hell. (o=

Bobbb - Citizen of Earth said...

The battle of the smartest eh?

Well My IQ is 165 – (currently, I suspect it has been declining as I age - I am 49) –
I don’t know how many standard deviations that is from anything
Please do not make me relive statistics
Please.

So – do I win?
No I don’t

I don’t just mention this to be a braggart, but to point out the uselessness of such an exercise.
When I focus my mind on something – I can get in pretty deep. But I never seem to get in as deep as I could.
Something always either holds me back, or PULLS me back.

This can be highly detrimental – career wise.
But it has been a huge benefit to me, enlightenment wise.

So instead of leading industry towards the world’s most efficient fuel cell or creating the next level of auto intelligence…
I write poetry
And children’s books

And of course long heart felt love letters to the woman who has captured my heart.
I like writing these the most.

Why? Because it pleases me.
Yes I am perhaps the ultimate hedonist.

So what is my point here?
Well for one it’s Monday and I am avoiding work for as long as possible
Second: Today’s love letter is still stuck in my mind and won’t materialize until I have cleared my head.

And it is this debate which has, in part, clouded it.

So here it is.
I believe in evolution but I believe there is more to it than we currently know or understand.
I have been following the human genome project, and the genetic marker projects with much interest.
What I am learning about ourselves forces me to believe man emerged from the other primates three or more million years ago, in Africa.

These early “human prototypes” developed nicely, made tools, discovered fire etc.
And they began to migrate from Africa, colonizing the world.

Interestingly however most of these “waves” of emerging hominids were limited in their success.
With the exception of one.
The last group of hominids to leave Africa was extremely successful.
Leaving their ancestral home around 50,000 years ago they quickly absorbed or supplanted their predecessors.
They colonized Australia and move into central Asia.
Not so much a global ancient civilization as a nursery for developing humanity.
From there they quickly colonized and populated the entire planet.

We are all descended from this one small group of early humans.
A mere 2000 generations separates us from the original group. The evidence is plain to see, written in our genes.

No one knows why this group was so extraordinarily successful when all of their predecessors were not.
Art, language, visualization, even love have been postulated.
I think it was all these things, and more.
Conscious thought in the abstract – is a powerful thing.

Your dreaded statistics tell us that this group was small – most probably between 1,000 and 10,000 individuals.
But it does not rule out the chance that it could have been as small as just TWO PEOPLE.

There is room here for Allot of beliefs.
Please stop quarreling over religion.
Suspect is not a punk – he is 15 years old – get over it.
He is smart and I like him

Eric is not a zealot; he has faith in his beliefs
I like that too even if I do not agree

If I must take a stand – I am closest to you Morgan, in your thinking.
No wonder I was drawn to you.

Now I need to get some work done

And I still have a very important letter to write.

Peace out

Bobbb - Citizen of Earth said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Bobbb - Citizen of Earth said...

PS:
Perhaps the most relevant thing stated here?

"And guys...candy corn is an Absolute Good :D"

Andrea and I have not yet met - but I already know I am going to like her.

Allot

For we have our love of candy corn in common - what more could one possibly ask?

That Cleaning Lady said...

I think you should publish the address of that anonymous person so 5th estate can go over and kick his fat useless behind.
Bet more than a few cowboys would follow him over there to beat some politeness into that person.

Suspect said...

This is pointless.

Erik: I apologize. You have your beliefs, and are entitled to them.

>It amazes me that some company hasnt snatched you up and made you an exec.

I'll tell you about that some other time :)

I am very sure evolution happens. But it might be wrong. "God" might have put the evidence there for us to see.

I can't say.

I don't know if God exists. I won't know until I die -- and by then, it'll be meaningless.

But kids, both in your country and mine, deserve to learn about evolution, if only as an interesting exploration of algorithms -- because evolution is just that, a process, an algorithm.

That's why I hate it when I hear about Darwin being taken out of kids' syllabus.

And I took that out on you, with a personal attack, and for that, I'm sorry.

@Morgan: I'm sorry this shit took place on your blog. Feel free to delete away.

@bobb:

165 on which scale? On the S-B scale, that 4.06 SDs above average.
On the "other" scale, it's 4.3 SDs.

Bobbb - Citizen of Earth said...

Hi
I'm not sure what scale was used.

I work in the mental health insurance industry doing data integrity analysis.
My employers had me evaluated for "job compatibility"

I sat with a couple of psychiatrists, answered allot of questions and was referred for more testing to determine "Career track satisfaction"
I declined.
I am sure the testing is very standardized.

I am truly not impressed with the results.
I like being smart – but I also enjoy being in love with everything.
What do I care about such tests?
My IQ cannot be adjusted from my end – except on weekends when I soften it with alcohol.

I guess they like that I am smart and as such they are interested in finding out how best I can serve them.

I hate it here.

I wish I could transfer to the mail room where I could sit and write like this all day long.
I decided a few years back to just let my mind go where it wants.
Being able to understand a diverse and intricate world of issues and ideas had led to much inner peace
I am blessed that way.

As long as I can pay my bills – and write love letters – what else matters?
I suppose I will never be really wealthy
But my life couldn’t be much richer

I agree with you on evolution
It is obvious – evident and should be taught.
To not do so is morally deficient.

I even take it back a notch to the stellar level – it all starts with plain old hydrogen

If you were God which cosmology would sound better to you?

Make everything and then come up with an elaborate system of impulses and stimuli to accommodate those intelligent enough to question it

Or

Start with an almost infinite quantity of the basic building blocks of matter and set in motion a process that will build on itself and make everything.
Including things even you yourself had not had even realized or expected; perhaps things greater than yourself?

I don’t know what motivates God – just saying I don’t get the feeling it’s a puppet show

Bobbb - Citizen of Earth said...

Morgan:
Sorry for the soapbox speaches

I'll be good now
Promise :)

Everyone here is free to believe what they want to believe - And thats a beautiful thing.

Andrea said...

Bob, I dig you too:)
Now bring on those buxom lassies lol

thimscool said...

You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.

Sorry I called you a punk, Suspect. I should have said, you’re acting like a punk! ;)

As Bobbb points out IQ tests exist so that powerful but stupid people and bureaucracies can make ‘informed’ decisions about how to place pigeons in the proper holes. If you really like talking about such matters, you should go hang out at Vox Day’s site. He loves making fun of "double digits".

As my dad used to say, "Son, you've got great potential; and you always will." [rim-shot] The point is: who cares about your IQ? It’s all about what you actually do with your life. You’re young, so the future is wide open. Aim for the stars, but watch out for the dog poop in front of you.

So, what is the series that you invented for calculating pi? Did you publish it?

sammyray said...

Wooo boy ... Suspect has been scampering all over Blogger, proclaiming his message of evolution...

How 'bout we let the conversation evolve...into SOMETHING ELSE!!!

LOL

Morgan said...

Wow. I leave to stock up on craft supply at the fabric store One Day Only Blowout sale and come back to find a fight has broken out. And then find that everyone was able to make nice. Good for you. I'm not going to address the unseemly back and forth that preceded the apologies. You're all big kids and I'm just glad to see that you all got a handle on it on your own. On some other blogs the snarkiness would have gone on ad nauseum.
A lot of good points were made in between jibes, which I shall address later this evening. For now I have to go put away fabric. Then I'm going to hang up my new plastic spiders, which I found on the 50 percent off rack. Then I'm going to watch Army of Darkness.

That Cleaning Lady said...

Oh, I remember the name of that movie: It's called Love At First Bite with George Hamilton as Dracula and Arte Johnson as Renfield. VERY FUNNY MOVIE!! Oh and the one with Jim Carrey is Once Bitten. One of his early funny movies before he got rich and bigheaded.
Hope you got some great deals on fabric and whatnots! I went to a yarn store today trying to get a pattern for a 50 year old afghan, might have hit the jackpot!!
Hope Octavia the spider eater is ok??

Roland said...

Whoa. I was just wondering why you were going to use fake spiders, but it seems that everyone else went on a different tack.

If Octavia were thrown at me, Octavia would be in spider heaven (if there were such a thing).
Will the prenthesized comments open up a new can of worms?
Stay tuned to, "The Token Hippie" to find out.

And I used to think soap operas were entertaining...

Erik said...

Roland

Spiders, like most creepy crawlies go to the "great toilet in the sky" It's similar to heaven, except it isnt nice. Actually it is more similar to Davy Jones' locker than heaven.

Bobbb - Citizen of Earth said...

A-G-C-T
We are all related you see
As we all share one big family tree
Octavia may share my heaven with me

Hope that doesn't put mr in the crapper!

Suspect said...

@bobb:

Mine is C-A-T-G-A-G, if you catch my drift...

Anonymous said...

wow you is some long-winded peeps

eaglewood said...

Well,

I went out of town and missed all the fun. On the basics Eric and I agree and I think that Morgan and I agree on one point. Christians should be consistent in what they practice and believe.

As for me and my house we will serve Yeshua, not the pagan gods of our forefathers. For my family that means a lot of things are diferent. We do not calibrate Halloween not only because of it’s roots but the fact that this is a celebration of death. Yeshua saved us from death, why would my family turn around and calibrate the very thing He saved us from. While we do calibrate Yeshua’s birth, death and resurrection. These are central ponts in the Christian faith and should be celebrated.

Eric is correct that true Christian faith is simply the same religion that the Hebrew people and others before them practiced. This is nothing new to us as it is a Biblical concept. Those who have accepted Yeshua as their savior are grafted onto the Hebrew family tree.

As to Suspect’s assertion that people of faith are not intelligent. That kind of statement is stereotypical and absurd. Both my wife and I have genius level I.Q. scores (my wife’s well over 170), yet are sold out to the One Who Purchased our lives. The thing is I have no qualms with you believing what you believe. That is your choice, and the choice to follow Yeshua cannot truly be forced upon another.

Morgan on the other hand I have qualms about her faith because she wants to add to Chistianity with other faiths (something expressly forbidden). Something about the first commandment is all.

eaglewood said...

calibrate in the second paragraph is celebrate.

I hate spellchecker sometimes.

Morgan said...

"The Christian faith isnt 2000 years old and therefore able to borrow from pagan beliefs. The Christian faith began at the begining of time (a few days after actually.) It starts with Adam and continues to this day. It has been called various things throughout time but it is the same faith."

If it started with Adam, it would make sense if Christianity spread from father to son without deviation. But Erik, the drawings of primitive man show that they did *not* follow the Biblical model. Palæolithic drawings depict different gods and goddesses as controlling different things, from fertility to luck in hunting. Supernatural beings were also blamed for calamities. If these folks sprung from Adam, they hadn't sprung very far on the timeline. If Christian monotheism began with Adam, why was Palæolithic man polythestic.
Of course, if you dismiss evolution, if you believe someone just put those drawings in caves for grins, then as Suspect points out there's no use debating these points because you're ignoring evidence of what is in favor of faith over what you want to believe.


Thimscool suggests that perhaps the devil planted these different myths to throw people off track, somehow encouraged pagan cultures to confuse folks trying to find the truth. I've heard this argument before and find it's also used to explain the existence of Buddhists, Hindus and even Catholics.

Morgan said...

Eaglewood, you aren't going to get off that easily. I notice you refused to address the most contentious point of this whole debate: Just what is your position on candy corn?

eaglewood said...

Candy Corn is a gift from G-d.

Morgan said...

I admire the fact that you are consistent, Eaglewood. But I think to really be consistent Christians shouldn't put up Christmas trees or participate in Easter egg hunts. Most Christians, though, don't want to upset their kids so they go along with all the pagan symbolism. One foot in the world, one foot out. I think what the Bible has to say about that also is found in the first commandments.
Do you put up a tree? I'm not being confrontational. I'm just curious. And if you do, what purpose does it serve?

Morgan said...

"Candy Corn is a gift from G-d."

Verily, Eaglewood, I agree.

eaglewood said...

No tree in our house, no Easter egg hunts either.

We do give gifts, but it is symbolic of the gifts the Magi gave.

Morgan said...

Good for you, Eaglewood. You've always walked the walk, in my opinion. It's rare to find fundamentalists Christians who truly practice the faith in a fundamental way.

Erik said...

If Christian monotheism began with Adam, why was Palæolithic man polythestic.

There are powers outside of G-d. Christianity acknowledges this. Those powers desire followers/worshippers. They lead men astray and have at various times instituted worship of themselves throughout history.

Those powers have made themselves available thru various methods ie astral projections ("spirit guides"), voodoo, magic/witchcraft/sorcery, mediums etc. It is for this reason that these practices have followers. Because there is more to it than simply a club of friendship. It is therefore no surprise that mideavl man would worship these beings when even modern man does. But of course, my G-d does not allow me to follow these beings as He is a jealous G-d and far more powerful than them. There is little point in me paying them much attention

Bobbb - Citizen of Earth said...

I cannot imagine any god being jealous...

thimscool said...

"Thimscool suggests that perhaps the devil planted these different myths to throw people off track, somehow encouraged pagan cultures to confuse folks trying to find the truth."

Actually I said "The Adversary". Less of a personification of evil/rebellion. I'm sure some here believe that the Devil is a real entity. I don't know about that, but I am sure that evil exists.

Now that doesn't mean that I think that Buddhism is evil. On the contrary, I think it is an excellent philosophy. But it is not a religion in the sense that it has no well-developed ontology.

Nor are myths evil, per se. Stories are how humans process and learn from a young age. When we are older, we develop the capacity for abstract thought. But only by having gone through a phase of narrative thinking.

The point about the adversary, is that if you accept the Christian world view, you may conclude that the similarities of the other myth structures was either a misguided premonition, or an active attempt by the evil spirit to counterfeit and confuse God's intentions.

Christianity/Judaism requires a blood sacrifice as the wages of sin. This is a very difficult concept for a secular do-gooder to understand and embrace. And so much more so because of the various parodies atrocities of blood sacrifice in other cultures (yes I’m thinking of the Aztecs). My secular upbringing makes me recoil from the concept of sacrificing some poor animal on a temple to please God. But at this stage in my life, when I have more experience with the concepts of death and suffering, I begin to grok what God was doing. Religion is about symbolism and example, stories and morals. It is meant to show us the way to God in light of our limited experience and understanding.

thimscool said...

parodies or atrocities.

And animals are sacrificed on altars, not temples.

Need coffee.

thimscool said...

Ahhh. Sweet beans. Where have you been all my morning?

Bobbb - Citizen of Earth said...

Enough theology already

Make with the CANDY!!!!

Bobbb - Citizen of Earth said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Bobbb - Citizen of Earth said...

Sorry about the repeat

My browser hates me

JohnR said...

Halloween lost any religous connotations years ago.

It is just a night when kids put on costumes and collect candy door-to-door.

Even a Calvinist like R.J. Rushdoony said it had no meaning, it is just a harmless holiday.

It is a secular holiday despite witches, ghosts, and such.

A Christian can just as easily participate as a non-Christian.

JohnR

Morgan said...

Good for you, JohnR. That's a sensible take I'd expect from A Level-Headed Christian.

JohnR said...

Oh, and candy corn is the tool of the devil.

JohnR