Thursday, April 13, 2006

How can you tell when a Catholic is driving too fast?


20 comments:

dlkjdfsa said...

Do to the laws of inertia the correct description for this picture should be, "How do you tell a catholic is accelerating too rapidly." If a catholic were merely driving too fast the car, the driver and the crucifix would all be traveling the same speed. There would be no force exerted on Jesus.... There are no laws governing the rate at which a car can accelerate, only laws on it's maximum speed.

:)

I silly.

Morgan said...

I was absent in physics class the day we went over how inertia affects Jesus.

This is exactly why it pays to hang out with smart people.

Thanks, silly. ;-P

PS Is that you in the avatar? Because you write very well for a baby.

Beth said...

I love this picture. I've had it saved on my computer and have been waiting for a good blog entry to post it along with. It makes me smile and giggle. ;-) :)

PS. Elborak used to be Catholic :)

ChiRho said...

Morgan,

Here is Rod Rosenbladt's essay on Christ and God-haters. I hope it clarifies.

Christ Died to Save God-Haters

We incline to moralism by nature. In other words, not all theologies equally draw us. The theologies which draw us, as iron fillings to a magnet, are the ones that have to do with self-improvement, with the righteousness of the Law. As children of Adam, we are drawn to those that say: "I stuck in my thumb and pulled out a plum and what a good boy am I." We are not neutral toward the various theologies.

The one that is true - that Christ's death alone saves - we are hostile to, because we are children of Adam. Somebody will ask you, "Gee, don't you believe that we contributed anything to our salvation?" The Reformation answers, "Sure: sin, hostility, alienation, death, guilt." It's not the answer they are looking for, but sure we contribute all of those things and more. But we don't like that answer; we are resistant to this theology.

The reformers said that faith is of its very nature, assurance, the opposite of doubt. It rests upon the validity of the divine promise of the Gospel. Faith doubts not, though the Christian doubts often. This doubt must be reproved and combated.

But how is doubt combated? It is combated by hearing the doctrine done well. Somebody should answer back to you in terms of what the doctrine is in the promises of the Word. This is how the Spirit produces reliance and assurance. If you say, "Gee, I wonder if I'm really a Christian," and your friend asks you, "Why?" "Well, my life's just a total mess, maybe I'm not really a believer." If your friend tells you to pray harder, cry more, read the Scriptures longer, fast, and so forth - go find another friend.

Find a friend who will talk to you about Christ, what he did at the cross, the sufficiency of his death, the truth of the imputation of his righteousness to you; those are the things we need to hear. If the reformers were correct, you can relax about whether you're going to heaven, even if a lot of times you hate God. Christ died to save God-haters. And the death of Christ is greater than your hatred of God. The death of Christ is greater than your and my flabby Christian life. It is greater than that. The doctrine of justification is greater than our sin.

This doctrine is what makes Christianity Christianity. You've got to get across that the righteousness that saves isn't a change in the human heart, it's a declared sentence, "I declare you innocent." And we say, "But I'm not innocent, I'm guilty as sin!" But the judge says, "I know, but I didn't say that, I said I declared you innocent." That's what Christianity is. It's a declaration of innocence based on another's righteousness, and reckoned to you as if it were yours.

-Dr. Rod Rosenbladt

Morgan said...

Chirho,

That's a good essay. There's just one problem: It doesn't really address the issue.

Lookit, in all the posts other at VP, the concept of salvation through grace was never in dispute.

Acceptance of Christ is necessary to become a Christian, but true repentance is the fruit that proves it.

But look at repentance. If you've wronged me in the most horrible way and you come to me and say, "I'm sorry. Forgive me," and after a few days you continue to wrong me as you always did, then you were not truly repentant, were you?

If you accept Christ, the virtue of him within you leads to true repentance and change. Professed Christians who continue to live as they did prior to being "saved," - professing hate, cheating on their wives and husbands, lying, etc. - showing of the Spirit, or feeling no conviction from it may have accepted Christ in name only, but not truly.

Remember, the Bible says, "By your fruits you shall know them."

What Vox and others like him fail to understand is that their brand of drive-thru Christianity is appealing because it advocates an "acceptance" of Christ in name only. The spirit is missing and not wanted, because it complicates the fun of ongoing sin.

Is this judgemental? The Bible says, "By your fruits you shall know them." If someone is spouting hatred it's best to take their claim of Godliness with a teaspoon of salt.

Morgan said...

chirho,

I left a key word out of my last comment. That fifth paragraph should have read:
Professed Christians who continue to live as they did prior to being "saved," - professing hate, cheating on their wives and husbands, lying, etc. - showing NOTHING of the Spirit, or feeling no conviction from it may have accepted Christ in name only, but not truly.

My point was, if as a Christian you have Christ in you, you change. You grow in Christ.

Shrubbery said...

OK, in the picture Christ is definately holding on for dear life. Quick question...if he's nailed to the cross why does he need to hang on?

Morgan said...

Shrub, I thought about that...Between you and Southside Rabbitslayer, I'm beginning to think that this photo isn't real....

dlkjdfsa said...

Yeah that's me in the picture, some 29 years ago. I just think the picture and my handle go well together. If your wondering were Southside Rabbitslayer comes from it's a combination of my father and mothers madden name. Sutton is "town south of London" Rabbitslayer comes from the German name "Hazen-stab"

"And the death of Christ is greater than your hatred of God."

Dr. Rod Rosenbladt, please take into consideration people like me. I don't have a hatred of god. You have to think something exists to have a hatred for it. I don't even have a hatred of the universe, the next closest thing to what ya'll consider god. I love my home.

There is the one thing I never remotley understood about Christian based religions. If god became man in the form of Jesus and all men die, how do you consider that he gave up anything? If he didn't die on the cross would he have not grown old and died anyway? I mean he started out as a baby and ended as a 30 something which proves that he did in fact grow.... If Jesus was god he must have been certain that heaven did in fact exist and that he was going to be there, no question. That's were all mans suffering comes from, not knowing for sure what's after the end. Dr. Rod Rosenbladt, "you can relax about whether you're going to heaven"

Ironically being an "atheist" like individual, I have the same feeling. I believe when I die I will go back to the place I came from, which from what I can remember is a wonderful "place" I will go there no matter what "right or wrong" I did in this life. This "nothing" will take me with out judgment. I will live on in this world through my effects, which is why I always try doing "right" As long as we follow the golden rule, treat others like you would like to be treated, peace will exist. I don't know about you but I would like to be treated like a "child of god". I am so far from Christ but ironically see many parallels in our beliefs.

Morgan said...

Robert, thoughtful post.
The one thing that a lot of atheists have over Christians is that they probably have pondered Christianity more than Christians have.

I hate to say it, but most Christians are either too lazy or too afraid to question what they've been taught. And sadly, much of what they believe is what they have been taught, rather than what they arrived at through their own exploration.

By the standards of most Christians, I am a really, really bad one because I question the fundamentalist line. It's amazing how fast they get angry when they can't answer your questions. It's even more amazing how quickly they transfer the anger on to you rather than focus it on their own lack of knowledge.

I'm not saying that *all* Christians are like this because I consider myself a Christian, but one who admires God as a God of love. I also happen to be a Christian who sees universal truths in other religions, and even truths in atheism. The idea that all atheists are God-haters is ridiculous. There are a lot of self-professed Christians who claim the word but hate the Spirit. (See today's latest post if you're interested in my thoughts on this.)

There are thoughtful Christians strong enough to utter the three words the arrogant majority cannot: "I don't know." It's easier, I suppose, to bluff one's way through questioning by using sanctimony or arrogance as distractions.

I like your questions and will ponder them and try to answer them. But if I don't know the answer, I'll tell you so. I won't attack you, because I consider you a friend.

dlkjdfsa said...

Of course you're my friend. Your a Hippie Christian and I'm a meat eatin' PETA person. I'm an artist going into the Army's infantry. I'm an atheist that thinks prayer can actually do good. I just call prayer a different thing, I call it positive thought. Gonna clime Mount Runyon now, it's the mount beside Hollywood. :)

Morgan said...

I don't pray in the conventional way, the old "Dear God...." way.
It's weird, the way I pray. I have this random "feeling" of prayer going through me most of the time. I think emotions are prayers. I was outside one night when I couldn't sleep and it was so beautiful. The moon was out and you could just see these amazing star formations. It was perfect and I thought how lucky I was and what a shame it was I couldn't find the words to tell God how much I appreciated just being where I was and who I was. And then I got this....I don't know how to put it other than "message" that my love was a form of appreciation, a thank-you of sorts and that love was really all that mattered.

It was the most comforting thought, to think that God "hears" our happiness and sadness and recognizes our silent joys and hurts as prayer without our having to say a word.

I think that's why I have such a concept of a loving God when others are wanting to paint him as otherwise.

Morgan said...

"I'm an artist going into the Army's infantry."

I saw where you mentioned this on your blog and have been meaning to ask you about it. Why did you decide to join the Army, and especially infantry? It's so dangerous, especially now.

dlkjdfsa said...

As I was skipping down the mountain I was thinking about that post. I really meant to use entering not going into. "An artist entering the army's infantry"..... gotta have the art! Why the Army? Well that's a big question. First a cut and paste from pretty lady...

I'm a sucker for conflict. I am also a sucker for perfect peace. I am an oxy moron. I've tried to be able to see things from as wide a perspective as an individual can. I love extremes. High contrast. It can be a little tormenting at times. I am hypercritical of everything. I think it's part of our evolution. Man just couldn't stop naming things which gave us this beautiful thing called language. As our language became more complex we starting giving names to abstract concepts. The more I got interested in language the more I found myself comparing things to try and figure everything out.To do that one needs to be oppositional in ones mind. I debate with my self till I'll silly in the head!

I blame my parents for this wonderfully terrible gift. My parents got divorced when I was very young. I kept bouncing from household to household. My father was a Green Beret in Viet Nam. My mother is a nurse. My father killed people with hate in his eyes. My mother empathized with the wounded. My dad called me a "fag" because I wanted to be an artist and had feelings. My mom said I was the best thing on the planet, that I had no limits and took me to the hair stylist. I take after both of them.

It got to long so I made a new post on Southside Rabbitlsayer...

dlkjdfsa said...

Enough of the I'm greater than thou crap. Here are some selfish reasons I want to join the Army.

I don't want to cook again. I don't want to be in sales and I don't want to paint rich peoples homes or cars as my art. I will do these things to survive only if I have to. I'm tiered of living in a minivan steeling wireless connections, crapping in a bucket, living like a rat. Always fearing that I might have to go the doctor for something and hearing, what do you think this is a socialism? I want to be treated like a person again. I work hard it's just this world isn't interested in real art right now...

I think I would like a job in the sky. As long as we have fuel there will be a demand for people to fly helicopters. The army would make this very easy for me. Pay off my school loan, bonus cash, free room and board, health care, exercise training, education, and the qualifications to come out of it flying choppers for anyone. I know the war in Iraq was a big fuck up by Mr. Bush but we're in it now, the damage has already been done, we really can't make it any worse. Unless Bushhead decides it's big bomb time. I can only improve the army by adding a leftish mind from within. Before I would train as a pilot I would have to do a year on the ground. It all depends on if I pass the color blindness test of course. If I fail I won't be qualified for flying or the infantry. I would have to look really hard at what jobs I'm qualified for to make my final decision.

Morgan said...

Robert, it sounds like you've thought out your decision well and have come up with noble and practical reasons to join the military.
I guess I just shudder a bit both from admiration and fear for you.
You really are a remarkable fellow.
When do you enter service?

dlkjdfsa said...

I scored exceptionally well on the military IQ test. A 50 equals an A and I scored 85. But I have mild colorblindness. I took a preliminary test at the recruiters and passed, barley. This coming Tuesday I go for the final physical, that's when I'll see if My level of colorblindness is acceptable for infantry and flight. If it's not I will have to look at the other jobs I'm qualified for. I'm not positive that I would want to do anything else. If I pass, which I should, I will be going to boot camp in less than a week. Crazy!

Morgan said...

Crazy, indeed!
If it's truly what you want, I hope it comes through for you. It's just as a mother, I see the baby in your avatar and not the handsome young man on the blog. I have children old enough for military service and would be terrified if they wanted to enter the military as it is today. But you're right when you say now that we're there the soliders are needed and if they truly wanted to go I'd support them. But I'd pray and pray and pray and pray, just as I will for you...

chirho said...

Morgan,

"That's a good essay. There's just one problem: It doesn't really address the issue."

Well, if one is of the belief that salvation is a single moment in the Christians life instead of a constant state, then I understand how you would dismiss this as irrelavent.

Dr. Rosenbladt uses an hypothetical person who is already a Christian, yet doubting his/her faith. Where is the doubter directed? To the "fruits of the Spirit?" Of course not, for who's life, when pressed against the Standard would leave with peace? No one- except those entertaining a false sense of security by smugly and pridefully claiming sinlessness.

They are directed to Christ and His Promises, not to their ability to do as God demands.

Lookit, in all the posts other at VP, the concept of salvation through grace was never in dispute.

Of course it was. If we are speaking of false Christians and true believers, then salvation is the topic. If one says, "by grace you are saved...but YOU have to make that choice...or after the intial grace a Christian must meet certain requirements to maintain salvation, then essentially salvation rests upon the sinner and not God. Identifying Christians by a sincierity level of repentance is the same as claiming only those who keep the Law are saved.

Acceptance of Christ is necessary to become a Christian, but true repentance is the fruit that proves it.
Again, who has proof? A sympathetic atheist can offer his starving neighbor a meal. A muslim respects his parents. A godless humanitarian may offer shelter.

Now which of these is a Christian?

Morgan said...

"Well, if one is of the belief that salvation is a single moment in the Christians life instead of a constant state, then I understand how you would dismiss this as irrelavent."

I don't dismiss anyone's thoughts as irrelavent, Chiro. And the question is not doubt in one's goodness. Who doesn't have that, with fair reason, for none of us can be completely good.
The issue, as I stated earlier, is the continued glorying in Willfull Sin despite the welcoming of the spirit.

The concept of salvation being a "constant state" isn't in doubt. But again, you're focusing on just salvation and not the spirit of Christ that enters when one accepts Him, the spirit that changes us in spite of ourself, the spirit that germinates the fruit that proves our allegience.

"If one says, "by grace you are saved...but YOU have to make that choice...or after the intial grace a Christian must meet certain requirements to maintain salvation, then essentially salvation rests upon the sinner and not God."

I'm actually saying the opposite. Once Christ enters He changes You. If a person shows no sign of change, if they continue to revel in hating others, gossiping, with not an ounce of conviction then they are not bearing fruit. The Bible urges fellowship and says, "By your fruits you shall know them." We are called to discern, Chiro, which is different than condemning. When I pick those people I get close to, I try not to choose people who would urge me to do wrong. It's something I'm especially mindful of now that I'm older, and have little ones to guide. If someone says, "I'm a Christian," but is a chronic, gleeful gossip or a liar or a hateful racists I have every right to be skeptical of the claim, and a duty to point out to my children that such chronic behavior is contrary to the claim of Christianity.

"A sympathetic atheist can offer his starving neighbor a meal. A muslim respects his parents. A godless humanitarian may offer shelter.
Now which of these is a Christian?"

Again a fair question. But I'd add another one to your list: "A married Baptist deacon who willfully spends every stolen moment he can find with his mistress."

I have a radical theory about Christianity, and the acceptance of Christ. I believe some invite him in a Spiritual level and are changed. Not all prayers are spoken, not all entreaties or invitations are either. Some come straight from the heart.
The muslim follows a different God, so obviously he is not a Christian. But he's as much a Christian as the Baptist deacon who made a show of inviting God but never really meant it, while that "godless humanitarian" and the "sympathetic atheist" may *not* be so godless as *you* think.

Neither you nor I are God, of course, so neither of us know. But it is interesting, I think, to kick around such ideas.